Transcript of the interview:
Antoine: Hello and welcome to our podcast, The Innovation Players. Today, we have the pleasure of welcoming Yann Tissot. Yann, thank you very much for accepting our invitation. To begin with, could you tell us about your professional journey, starting with your studies?
Yann: Well, I studied microengineering at EPFL, a field you're quite familiar with yourself! Afterwards, somewhat by accident, I also completed a PhD at EPFL, sponsored by Intel.
The path seemed pretty clear: I was supposed to move to the United States to work after my doctorate. But for various reasons, I stayed in Switzerland and joined Oerlikon Space in Zurich, a company that was later acquired by RUAG and operates in the space technology sector.
There, I was responsible for optical telecommunications between satellites and ground stations, as well as optical systems for space applications.
After two or three years, once I felt I'd explored everything I could in that role, I joined Optotune, which was a young start-up at the time and is still around today. I have a lot of respect for that company. They were developing tunable lenses for miniature mobile phone zoom systems.
It was while taking apart these phones that I discovered how their screens were designed. I remember thinking, "This can't be the best way to do it! Surely we could do better using a fiber-based technology I'd developed during my PhD."
That technology hadn't originally been intended for lighting at all. It still required considerable development and refinement.
That's how I got started. I quickly began trying to finance my patents by doing consulting work for the German Aerospace Center. I also applied for an EPFL innovation grant called Innogrant, which still exists today and is a fantastic way to support innovation.
That grant gave me access to the laboratory where I'd previously worked. And that's how we launched the company.
Antoine: And L.E.S.S. was founded in 2012?
Yann: Exactly, in 2012. Since we needed substantial infrastructure to develop our first products, we established the company quite early to make the necessary investments possible. But our first products didn't arrive until around 2015.
Antoine: What an impressive journey! Congratulations.
Yann: Thank you very much!
Antoine: Of course, we're going to talk about innovation. I'd love to hear your perspective on the subject. There are so many different definitions of innovation, sometimes complementary ones.
If we focus on technological innovation, how would you define it? What's your vision of innovation?
Yann: I'd actually approach innovation more as a mindset.
For me, it's both a refusal to accept the status quo and a determination to find a solution to a problem, whatever that problem may be.
I think that's a pretty good definition. It's about moving forward by thinking outside the box, finding ways around what seems impossible, and coming up with creative solutions to solve problems.
Antoine: I love that! I really like your definition. I think it's very accurate, and ultimately it covers everything, whether we're talking about technological innovation, social innovation, or something else entirely.
Yann: I think we place far too much emphasis on technological innovation. A small craftsman can be innovative and creative too. Innovation can happen in business models and in countless other areas.
So I believe that innovative mindset exists in all of us.
Antoine: I really like that. With L.E.S.S., you've had the opportunity to enter different markets. I imagine you've encountered quite different approaches to innovation depending on the industry.
We know you work in the automotive industry, but also in watchmaking. Have you noticed differences in how these industries approach and develop innovation?
Yann: They're two very different industries.
For us, watchmaking falls within the industrial vision market, where we're active and performing well. On the other hand, there's the automotive industry.
But I'd say they have one thing in common: everyone wants innovation, but nobody wants to change. And that's true in every industry!
I think that, beyond innovation itself, what's really essential is supporting change and helping customers adopt innovation. And that process varies enormously from one market to another.
I remember the first watchmaking lamp we developed and went to present to a watch manufacturer.
I was incredibly proud. It was the early days of the company, and naturally, I was completely in love with my product and my technology.
I arrived at the workshop. The workshop manager was there, along with an operator. I started explaining all the advantages of our lamp: uniform lighting, reduced eye strain, better defect detection thanks to directional light...
I'd prepared every argument. I felt incredibly convincing. I was thinking, "This product is amazing! If someone presented it to me like this, I'd buy it immediately!"
And at the end of my presentation, the operator looked at me and said, "This doesn't work at all."
I was completely stunned. I went pale and asked her what was wrong.
She replied, "The chair is too low."
I think I learned an enormous amount from that first meeting with a watchmaker.
It's not enough to solve a problem. You also have to support change and help people adapt their habits. That's the first step toward successfully introducing innovation.
In the automotive industry, it's completely different. If you change a single screw, there's an enormous amount of documentation and countless approvals required.
It's extremely difficult to innovate in that sector.
So you have to find other approaches. We can offer aesthetic improvements, create a distinctive lighting identity for a vehicle, or reduce weight.
But above all, we need to work with designers, because they're the ones who potentially have the power to change things.
At the operational level, everything is so highly optimized that even a small change can become extremely complicated for the people involved.
So the challenge is very different in the automotive industry.
Antoine: It's a highly structured, heavily regulated industry, with much less room for maneuver. And ultimately, as in many fields, creative designers may have a little more freedom.
Yann: Exactly. Although, depending on the brand, designers have more or less freedom.
And in the automotive industry, cost is an absolutely decisive factor. Whether you're innovative or not, you either fit within the established requirements or you don't.
Antoine: Looking back at your engineering career and all the projects you've worked on, both with previous employers and since founding L.E.S.S., have you ever faced a particularly difficult challenge?
A moment when you thought, "Wow, how are we going to solve this?"
Do you have an anecdote you could share with us?
Yann: I think the watchmaking story is quite representative.
But I also have an example from the automotive industry. In that sector, one of the biggest challenges is managing the expectations and interests of all the different people involved in introducing an innovation or a new supplier.
In the early days, when we presented our technology, there were sometimes people in the room whose main purpose was to analyze our proposal and, ultimately, find reasons to reject it.
You had to get past that first obstacle before becoming interesting to the decision-makers.
Often, you'd start by presenting your technology to one or two people. Then suddenly, you'd find yourself in a room with ten people.
You'd realize that you were generating interest, but also that you were facing a much more complex challenge.
In the automotive industry, there are so many stakeholders who need to be brought together: the brand, the integrator, and ourselves.
We have to align with the integrator's interests, which aren't necessarily the same as the brand's interests.
I think that's the biggest challenge, beyond the technology itself.
Ultimately, we'll always find a technical solution to a problem. Our company is structured to do exactly that.
But the real difficulty lies in getting technology adopted and integrated into enormous organizations that excel at operational efficiency but aren't designed to adapt quickly.
Antoine: So it's a question of mindset, dealing with people who aren't necessarily comfortable managing change?
Yann: Absolutely, but it's also about the company's organizational structure.
Antoine: That's interesting. Building on that, how do you manage innovation internally at L.E.S.S., within your team?
Every CEO has their own vision. How have you integrated this culture of innovation into your company?
Yann: For a long time, I tried to separate myself from the company, in a way, to give more space to the different people within the organization.
But ultimately, I'm still the common thread connecting the customer, the technology, and the development of the product.
However, I make a particular effort to maintain an innovative attitude and mindset throughout the company.
Every employee operates within a relatively flexible framework. It's not about being overly permissive, but I'll always encourage people who try to improve things, even if they make mistakes.
Making a mistake isn't a problem. Mistakes can always be forgiven. We discuss what happened, analyze it, and realign things.
On the other hand, I'll be very strict with people who want to maintain the status quo, who say, "It's not possible," or "That's how everyone else does it."
That's when we need to go through an entire thought process to break down what's supposedly impossible.
Why is it impossible? Where does that limitation come from?
We keep going until we find a constructive proposal rather than a dead end.
It's a daily challenge. And everyone needs to embrace that attitude: never remain stuck in front of a problem, but always be proactive in proposing solutions.
Antoine: I think what we're really talking about is a culture of innovation.
Yann: Exactly.
Antoine: You need to create an environment where ideas can emerge, where they're accepted, allowed to grow, and where people can come together around a shared vision to move forward.
I think that's the right approach.
We've had the opportunity to work together on a project. And I always ask our guests this question: how did you perceive FiveCo from the outside, and how do you see us today?
And if you have a question for me in return, I'd be happy to answer it!
Yann: From our side, it was a period when we were overloaded and needed to outsource part of our development, which is something we rarely do.
Generally, we handle a great deal of development internally.
So we were looking for a reliable partner, someone we already knew. I was familiar with your background and expertise, so we knew who we were dealing with.
It was a multidisciplinary project involving electronics, optics, and mechanics.
We needed efficient, trustworthy people to whom we could entrust that development.
And I was also very happy to support the local economy!
Antoine: We could afford to do that on this particular product!
Yann: Exactly! We'd been looking for opportunities to collaborate for quite some time, and this project was particularly well suited to that.
For us, it was a very positive experience.
We didn't need to manage the project in a rigid way. The collaboration was based on trust, and it was extremely efficient.
Antoine: Thank you!
Yann: You're welcome! I genuinely mean it!
The question I'd have for you concerns your business models.
They're very different from ours, because we need to manufacture flawless products in very large volumes.
Ultimately, we focus more on developing manufacturing processes that guarantee quality at scale than on custom development for individual customers.
In that context, I noticed that you've launched THEye, which is a somewhat more mainstream product, although not necessarily B2C.
Is this part of a strategy you want to develop further? Because your core business is still custom development, right?
Antoine: Yes, primarily.
Thanks for your question. I liked how, at the beginning of the interview, you described your PhD as something that happened by accident.
THEye was a bit of an accident too, although perhaps a deliberate one!
We were working on many highly confidential projects, particularly in the medical field and implantable electronic devices.
I needed a way to demonstrate what we were capable of doing, especially in embedded electronics and ultra-low-power technologies.
So I asked my team to develop a demonstrator, telling them, "I want something as compact as possible."
My team came back to me and asked, "Okay, but what do you actually want it to do?"
I replied, "Just put a small sensor in it!"
A few years earlier, we'd worked with Sensirion, which develops temperature and humidity sensors, among other things.
So the team developed a tiny module, about the size of a one-franc coin, which would eventually become THEye.
When we sent a newsletter to our contact database presenting this technology, we received a tremendous amount of interest.
We then decided to produce a small batch of 100 units to collect user feedback and allow people to test the product.
Even back then, the specifications were quite impressive: two and a half years of battery life, half a million measurement points, encrypted data, and an extremely user-friendly application.
With all the feedback we received, we started asking ourselves some questions.
While discussing it with my business partners, I said, "Ultimately, the question is simple: do we turn this into a product or not?"
And we decided to go for it!
Initially, the project was developed in the background, with the team working on it alongside other activities.
But gradually, it became a fully fledged product.
We went through various certifications, including IP68. We developed the mobile application, followed by the Gateway, the Cloud, and the Dashboard.
We started with one customer, then two, and we quickly defined the limits of our business model.
We wanted to test our product with local customers in Switzerland, but we didn't want to handle distribution ourselves.
So we began looking for distributors.
And the real turning point, the decision that truly accelerated the project, was when we decided to offer white-label solutions.
Yann: I see!
Antoine: Today, THEye still represents a relatively small part of our revenue. It was an opportunistic development, but we're working to grow it.
And our greatest strength, which might sound funny to say about this project, isn't necessarily the product itself.
Our strength is that the entire technology is controlled by one single team, which handles all aspects of development.
That means we can adapt the product to the specific requirements of our customers, whether they're in pharmaceuticals, logistics, or security.
That's where our real competitive advantage lies.
Yann: I see.
Antoine: I have one last question, which we like to ask all our guests.
If you had to summarize innovation in one word, just one... Well, I'll be generous, as I told Nicolas previously, you can also choose a short phrase!
But for you, what is innovation?
Yann: I'm going to be a little provocative, but it requires some context!
Like every good Swiss citizen, I did my military service.
I completed my basic training in Magglingen, because I was an elite athlete at the time. Back then, promising Swiss athletes went to Magglingen.
During my military refresher courses, they didn't really know what to do with me, since I hadn't been trained in the usual way.
We had a superior officer who was wondering what would ever become of me, because he didn't think I was capable of achieving much in life!
In that extremely rigid environment, I'd developed different creative strategies to preserve my imagination and intellectual freedom.
I would make little jokes and play on words, which particularly irritated the authorities.
One day, this officer came up to me, red with anger. I could see he was really upset, even though I was doing what I'd been asked to do.
Antoine: I have a feeling I'm going to like this story!
Yann: And then he said to me, "You're a nonconformist!"
And I thought that word was absolutely fantastic!
For him, it was an insult. But I was beaming, because nobody had ever described me that way before, and I felt that the word defined me perfectly.
So, in terms of mindset, I think innovation is about nonconformity.
You have to be able to break away from conventional thinking to find something that solves a problem.
Antoine: I love it!
Yann, thank you so much for accepting our invitation. It's been a real pleasure talking with you.
I wish you every success in the future.
We'll of course share L.E.S.S.'s contact details. I encourage everyone to visit their website. There's so much to discover and some truly impressive technology.
A huge thank you!
Yann: Thank you very much!